#117 Minds Under Siege: Gabor Maté, Naomi Klein & Cecilie Surasky

Listen to this episode from Sounds of SAND on Spotify. In this SAND Community Gathering (January 2025), journalist Naomi Klein and trauma expert Dr. Gabor Maté explored the complex intersection of collective trauma, political power, and memory in a discussion moderated by Cecilie Surasky. Drawing from Naomi’s recent analysis of how trauma has been weaponized in current conflicts, and Gabor’s deep understanding of trauma’s psychological impacts, their conversation examined how media narratives and political rhetoric weaponize fear and trauma to gain public support for military and political crimes. The discussion addressed the troubling speed at which the Oct 7 Jewish trauma is now converted into a spectacle through virtual reality experiences, museum exhibitions, and immersive memorials, while questioning who gets to control these narratives and to what end. Together, they explored alternatives for remembering that might lead toward healing rather than perpetuating cycles of violence.   We hear from several Community Gathering audience members with their questions in the second half of the episode.   Gabor Maté, M.D. is a specialist on trauma, addiction, stress and childhood development. After 20 years of family practice and palliative care experience, Dr. Maté worked for over a decade in Vancouver’s Downtown East Side with patients challenged by drug addiction and mental illness. For his groundbreaking medical work and writing he has been awarded the Order of Canada, his country’s highest civilian distinction, and the Civic Merit Award from his hometown, Vancouver. Gabor is also the creator of a psychotherapeutic approach, Compassionate Inquiry, now studied by thousands of therapists, physicians, counselors, and others in over 80 countries. Naomi Klein is an award-winning journalist and New York Times bestselling author. She is a columnist with The Guardian. In 2018 she was named the inaugural Gloria Steinem Endowed Chair at Rutgers University and is now Honorary Professor of Media and Climate at Rutgers. In September 2021 she joined the University of British Columbia as UBC Professor of Climate Justice (tenured) and co-director of the Centre for Climate Justice. Cecilie Surasky is the Director of Communications and Narrative at the Othering & Belonging Institute (OBI), where she leads an incredible team focused on integrating strategic communications and narrative strategies. With a background in Religious Studies and Semiotics, Cecilie views all narratives as sacred, and believes that leaders, for better or worse, often serve as modern-day high priests. As former deputy director of Jewish Voice for Peace (JVP) she led impactful campaigns aimed at building a co-liberation movement and garnering support for Palestinian human rights. Topics 00:00 Introduction and Welcome 00:45 Panel Introduction and Moderator 01:31 Exploring Trauma and Its Impact 02:44 Weaponizing Trauma in Conflict 06:14 Historical Context and Jewish Identity 10:54 Challenging Narratives and Identities 15:09 The Role of Trauma in Shaping Perspectives 30:35 The Impact of Trauma on Palestinians 32:17 Structures of Deliberate Traumatization 37:48 Healing and Moving Forward 41:50 Debunking Historical Myths 42:12 Instrumentalization of Trauma 43:24 Hollywood's Role in Shaping Trauma Narratives 46:30 Economic and Political Motives Behind the Holocaust 48:27 Comparing Historical and Modern Genocides 49:59 Imagining a State Focused on Healing Trauma 51:00 Reclaiming and Reinterpreting History 58:29 The Role of Compassion in Addressing Trauma 01:05:44 Palestinian Perspectives on Healing and Storytelling 01:13:21 Concluding Thoughts and Future Conversations Resources Naomi Klein’s Website Gabor Maté’s Website Other and Belonging Institute Jewish Voices for Peace Naomi Klein’s Article on Israel Weaponizing Trauma: “How Israel has made trauma a weapon of war” (The Guardian) Doppelganger: A Trip into the Mirror World by Naomi Klein The Myth of Normal: Trauma, Illness & Healing in a Toxic Culture by Gabor Maté  Watch SAND’s Where Olive Trees Weep  Purchase SAND’s full 23-video series Conversations on Palestine Watch SAND’s The Wisdom of Trauma  Learn more about the SAND Community Gatherings  Support the mission of SAND and the production of this podcast by becoming a SAND Member