defenderofthebasic.substack.com/p/how-attention-markets-work/comment/139847772

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https://defenderofthebasic.substack.com/p/how-attention-markets-work/comment/139847772

Defender on Defender’s Corner

beautiful questions!!! > how do good ideas, that are misunderstood by the notable person, get valuable attention when they are dismissed due to misunderstanding, or biased perception? I described it as (1) 🟢 or (2) 🔴 but this is the third option. I use this as a "levelling" mechanism. If you have an idea that you know is true, and it receives 90% NO, then this shows you the frontier of that community. You're basically giving out participatory tests now. One way I think about what I do is that I search for these truths that haven't yet propagated. When people review it and say "this can't possibly be true for reasons XYZ" that gives me insight into "where the idea is stuck". It also acts as a signaling mechanism, for me to find the others who believe the unpopular idea. The fact that it's unpopular / there is stigma around it gives me greater signal that those who stand by it care about & can recognize truth. I think there are a lot of notable people that want to endorse more unpopular things but feel like they would be ostracized. > if the originator of an idea doesn't present their idea in an attention-grabbing way this is where I think "champions" of an idea can help. I think it is often the case that the originator is not well versed in communication/signaling. If this system existed, I would be down in there looking for these hidden gems and helping them package it. > bad ideas, well presented, and appealing to a notable person's bias, will gain heaps of attention? this is true but I think won't be any worse than the existing algorithms. Right now you can get scott alexander's attention by writing something that appeals to his bias and he will review it/feature it etc. All I need is a way for me to signal my belief of unpopular truths, find the others, and flag it up. Which is somewhat what we do by writing earnestly on substack, what I was doing in "Our Story So Far" (https://defenderofthebasic.substack.com/p/d30535ea-e84d-4b9c-a654-4a4fdfaf0303) by articulating my model of reality, even the crazy parts. > And how does this deal with the bandwagon effect, where people will sacrifice being correct for being part of an in-group? I think this is the real reward: what I seek is making a 90/10 prediction market, where I am on the 10% side, AND it ends up being proven correct later. If I had made a market for The Telepathy Tapes going viral, it would have proved that I have good intuition there even if no one else did. If I had made a market for "we're inside a blackhole" it would have been impressive (it appears to be gaining traction now in my circles, where it was ignored/seen as crazy before). The 90/10 prediction is proof that you are surfacing something novel to the community. Either because you will find the other 10% who already recognize it, OR it will be proven later with time.



Bing

Defender on Defender’s Corner

https://defenderofthebasic.substack.com/p/how-attention-markets-work/comment/139847772

beautiful questions!!! > how do good ideas, that are misunderstood by the notable person, get valuable attention when they are dismissed due to misunderstanding, or biased perception? I described it as (1) 🟢 or (2) 🔴 but this is the third option. I use this as a "levelling" mechanism. If you have an idea that you know is true, and it receives 90% NO, then this shows you the frontier of that community. You're basically giving out participatory tests now. One way I think about what I do is that I search for these truths that haven't yet propagated. When people review it and say "this can't possibly be true for reasons XYZ" that gives me insight into "where the idea is stuck". It also acts as a signaling mechanism, for me to find the others who believe the unpopular idea. The fact that it's unpopular / there is stigma around it gives me greater signal that those who stand by it care about & can recognize truth. I think there are a lot of notable people that want to endorse more unpopular things but feel like they would be ostracized. > if the originator of an idea doesn't present their idea in an attention-grabbing way this is where I think "champions" of an idea can help. I think it is often the case that the originator is not well versed in communication/signaling. If this system existed, I would be down in there looking for these hidden gems and helping them package it. > bad ideas, well presented, and appealing to a notable person's bias, will gain heaps of attention? this is true but I think won't be any worse than the existing algorithms. Right now you can get scott alexander's attention by writing something that appeals to his bias and he will review it/feature it etc. All I need is a way for me to signal my belief of unpopular truths, find the others, and flag it up. Which is somewhat what we do by writing earnestly on substack, what I was doing in "Our Story So Far" (https://defenderofthebasic.substack.com/p/d30535ea-e84d-4b9c-a654-4a4fdfaf0303) by articulating my model of reality, even the crazy parts. > And how does this deal with the bandwagon effect, where people will sacrifice being correct for being part of an in-group? I think this is the real reward: what I seek is making a 90/10 prediction market, where I am on the 10% side, AND it ends up being proven correct later. If I had made a market for The Telepathy Tapes going viral, it would have proved that I have good intuition there even if no one else did. If I had made a market for "we're inside a blackhole" it would have been impressive (it appears to be gaining traction now in my circles, where it was ignored/seen as crazy before). The 90/10 prediction is proof that you are surfacing something novel to the community. Either because you will find the other 10% who already recognize it, OR it will be proven later with time.



DuckDuckGo

https://defenderofthebasic.substack.com/p/how-attention-markets-work/comment/139847772

Defender on Defender’s Corner

beautiful questions!!! > how do good ideas, that are misunderstood by the notable person, get valuable attention when they are dismissed due to misunderstanding, or biased perception? I described it as (1) 🟢 or (2) 🔴 but this is the third option. I use this as a "levelling" mechanism. If you have an idea that you know is true, and it receives 90% NO, then this shows you the frontier of that community. You're basically giving out participatory tests now. One way I think about what I do is that I search for these truths that haven't yet propagated. When people review it and say "this can't possibly be true for reasons XYZ" that gives me insight into "where the idea is stuck". It also acts as a signaling mechanism, for me to find the others who believe the unpopular idea. The fact that it's unpopular / there is stigma around it gives me greater signal that those who stand by it care about & can recognize truth. I think there are a lot of notable people that want to endorse more unpopular things but feel like they would be ostracized. > if the originator of an idea doesn't present their idea in an attention-grabbing way this is where I think "champions" of an idea can help. I think it is often the case that the originator is not well versed in communication/signaling. If this system existed, I would be down in there looking for these hidden gems and helping them package it. > bad ideas, well presented, and appealing to a notable person's bias, will gain heaps of attention? this is true but I think won't be any worse than the existing algorithms. Right now you can get scott alexander's attention by writing something that appeals to his bias and he will review it/feature it etc. All I need is a way for me to signal my belief of unpopular truths, find the others, and flag it up. Which is somewhat what we do by writing earnestly on substack, what I was doing in "Our Story So Far" (https://defenderofthebasic.substack.com/p/d30535ea-e84d-4b9c-a654-4a4fdfaf0303) by articulating my model of reality, even the crazy parts. > And how does this deal with the bandwagon effect, where people will sacrifice being correct for being part of an in-group? I think this is the real reward: what I seek is making a 90/10 prediction market, where I am on the 10% side, AND it ends up being proven correct later. If I had made a market for The Telepathy Tapes going viral, it would have proved that I have good intuition there even if no one else did. If I had made a market for "we're inside a blackhole" it would have been impressive (it appears to be gaining traction now in my circles, where it was ignored/seen as crazy before). The 90/10 prediction is proof that you are surfacing something novel to the community. Either because you will find the other 10% who already recognize it, OR it will be proven later with time.

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      beautiful questions!!! > how do good ideas, that are misunderstood by the notable person, get valuable attention when they are dismissed due to misunderstanding, or biased perception? I described it as (1) 🟢 or (2) 🔴 but this is the third option. I use this as a "levelling" mechanism. If you have an idea that you know is true, and it receives 90% NO, then this shows you the frontier of that community. You're basically giving out participatory tests now. One way I think about what I do is that I search for these truths that haven't yet propagated. When people review it and say "this can't possibly be true for reasons XYZ" that gives me insight into "where the idea is stuck". It also acts as a signaling mechanism, for me to find the others who believe the unpopular idea. The fact that it's unpopular / there is stigma around it gives me greater signal that those who stand by it care about & can recognize truth. I think there are a lot of notable people that want to endorse more unpopular things but feel like they would be ostracized. > if the originator of an idea doesn't present their idea in an attention-grabbing way this is where I think "champions" of an idea can help. I think it is often the case that the originator is not well versed in communication/signaling. If this system existed, I would be down in there looking for these hidden gems and helping them package it. > bad ideas, well presented, and appealing to a notable person's bias, will gain heaps of attention? this is true but I think won't be any worse than the existing algorithms. Right now you can get scott alexander's attention by writing something that appeals to his bias and he will review it/feature it etc. All I need is a way for me to signal my belief of unpopular truths, find the others, and flag it up. Which is somewhat what we do by writing earnestly on substack, what I was doing in "Our Story So Far" (https://defenderofthebasic.substack.com/p/d30535ea-e84d-4b9c-a654-4a4fdfaf0303) by articulating my model of reality, even the crazy parts. > And how does this deal with the bandwagon effect, where people will sacrifice being correct for being part of an in-group? I think this is the real reward: what I seek is making a 90/10 prediction market, where I am on the 10% side, AND it ends up being proven correct later. If I had made a market for The Telepathy Tapes going viral, it would have proved that I have good intuition there even if no one else did. If I had made a market for "we're inside a blackhole" it would have been impressive (it appears to be gaining traction now in my circles, where it was ignored/seen as crazy before). The 90/10 prediction is proof that you are surfacing something novel to the community. Either because you will find the other 10% who already recognize it, OR it will be proven later with time.
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